Thread: American Clean Energy & Security Act

Yikes! Not sure I like it either. We don't get nearly that hot. I think the hotest we get is hugh 90's. But I too, will just be sweating it out. Our bills are high enough as it is!

See the cap and trade thread ....this bill SUCKS

WTF? So let's stick it to low and middle Americans? The rich can afford whatever out the ass payments they're assigned.

I wonder if the amount of energy allotted is based on house size, family size or income size. And the part about the companies using at least 20% renweable, while a great idea, will just be more cost passed onto us, the consumers.

How about we wait to pass all these new bills until the economy is more stable instead of taxing us into the ground?!?!

Originally Posted by lauragshsu

How about we wait to pass all these new bills until the economy is more stable instead of taxing us into the ground?!?!

I totally agree... or even better... lets screw this bill compleatly! Scientists are now discovering that global warming is not bad at all. The earth has its own way of taking care of itself. Global warming is for Mr Gore who can make an arm and a leg off of talking about it.

Originally Posted by lauragshsu

WTF? So let's stick it to low and middle Americans? The rich can afford whatever out the ass payments they're assigned.

I wonder if the amount of energy allotted is based on house size, family size or income size. And the part about the companies using at least 20% renweable, while a great idea, will just be more cost passed onto us, the consumers.

How about we wait to pass all these new bills until the economy is more stable instead of taxing us into the ground?!?!

I totally agree! The way I see it. If this passes, we're all gonna be forced to take on 2 & 3 jobs, pay out the booty for daycare, just to pay taxes on this nonsense. Then we'll all die at 57 from stress related massive heart attacks. A person can't keep up w/ 2 & 3 jobs for very long before their health starts to deteriorate.

Why oh why tax the heck outta the American people? This is no way to stimulate the economy. Put a little more $$$$ in our pockets & we'll spend it. That's how you stimulate the economy.

I think it's fine, depending on how it's determined. I think it should be different in different parts of the country because, seriously, in Houston there are a lot of people that NEED air conditioning.

Btw, you should look at how much the rest of the world is paying for electricity. If you want to give your kids a safer environment, you're going to have to bit the bullet a little.

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

I think it's fine, depending on how it's determined. I think it should be different in different parts of the country because, seriously, in Houston there are a lot of people that NEED air conditioning.

Yes, and in the Northern states people NEED heat in the winter. EVERY state has a time when the residents need more electricity.

People pay for the energy coming into their homes. We PAY for it. To tax us based on how much we use on top of the markup that is already on it is crazy.

This winter people were complaining that an electric company turned off a man's heat without seeing who lived in the apartment first and he froze to death. People said the heads of the company should be charged with his murder. Now the gov't is going to make it so even more people can't afford to heat/cool their homes when it is needed. Does that make them responsible for murder if this goes through and people begin to freeze/overheat?

Yes, and in the Northern states people NEED heat in the winter. EVERY state has a time when the residents need more electricity.

I thought that went without saying.

You pay next to NOTHING compared to the rest of the western world. Why is it crazy to tax people who use more energy than they need? My bet is that they would be more likely to use less. Which is exactly the point.

It's crazy for an outside "force" to determine how much energy I need.

I stay home with my children. Our house uses electric heat and is not set up to be able to be heated with a wood-burning stove. Our temperatures can be around -5 in the winter. How can someone in DC tell me how much energy *I* need. Or my neighbor who uses a breathing aide because of emphysema and has that running all day. Who is to tell him he needs to be taxed so he can breathe?

This is another step of the government entering our homes and telling us what we can/can't do. They are micromanaging our lives and it is crazy that so many people are okay with their lives being run by lawmakers who don't even understand what they are saying yes to. First energy, then car size, next insurance (a plan to have people pay a $1000 penalty for not having health insurance is on it's way), and then what? We will have no freedoms of choice. THAT is what this is going to cause. Bit by bit, our freedom will be diminished.

i think it's not fine. i think you can't legistlate morality, and being a good steward of money and the earth's resources is ultimately a moral decision. i think we need to find better energy sources and advocate responsibility, but i think it's wrong to legislate how much energy a person can use. it's unamerican.

Yes, we mustn't teach people that being responsible for their money, energy usage, and actions is of moral value, and put monetary motivation behind it.

How do you go from "Being charged for excessive energy usage" (which, btw, is what they did when I lived in public housing. We were allotted a certain amount and if we went over that amount we had to pay for it) to "They're going to tell us what car we can drive" then to "We'll have no freedom of choice AT ALL!!!!!" ???????? What's the tipping point?

Because:

being told that if I use more than X amount of energy I'll be taxed is them taking away my choice.

being told that if I drive an SUV or large vehicle and not a hybrid (which needs a new battery every five years) I'll be taxed is them taking away my choice.

If I choose to drive an SUV and heat my home, that is my right. If I choose to not use disposable diapers, plates, and cutlery, that is my right. If I choose to teach my children to recycle, to plant a garden, or to not waste energy, that is my right! But the government does not have a right to force me into these decisions by making it impossible to afford otherwise.

But shouldn't the gov't be looking out for the best interest of the country as a whole? Which may include limiting certain "rights" (they are not telling you not to heat your home) in order to better the nation for ALL of the people who live in it? Not to mention for the future.

Looking out for our best interests, yes. But that is not what is going on right now.

It is my responsibility as a human to teach my children to value our Earth and do things to improve it with their actions. The Gov't has much more important things to do than waste money on telling me what I can/cannot buy in relation to that or making laws to "better our energy use" when they are not fully knowledgeable and educating the public on this plan. Considering the Energy Czar didn't even read the entire bill, I am positive that most who voted for it weren't bothered to either.

Why oh why would ANYONE want the Govt to butt into our lives & make decisions for our families???????

I can't wrap my head around this concept! We have brains & can decide for ourselves. It's a free country. Would you really want the Govt to tell you how to live your lives??? I don't get it... Simply don't get it. It's an endless cycle. You let the Govt into your life even a tiny bit & you're opening the door for them to take full control. Like you're a govt robot or puppet. I could give 2 shits who's in office. It's just not right.

When Barack Obama turns his thermostat below 72 degrees, let me know.

When "not in my backyard" Ted Kennedy turns the AC off in is Hyannis Mansion, let me know. That will be around the same time he agrees to the wind farm. BTW - have you seen the video of the drunken hypocrite dumping fuel into his beloved Nantucket Sound?

That's the problem with the government elites. They will dictate, but they will not follow their own rules.

The smallest minority is the individual. Don't lose your individuality and become a mindless member of the mass. They can wrap it all up pretty and tie a big bow around it and say, "for the greater good" or "for the good of all". It doesn't change what it is - loss of freedom.
I will use whatever lightbulbs I choose. I will drive a big, gas guzzling SUV. My childrens' safety is paramount. I will heat and cool my house as I see fit. I will buy the health care I think is best for my family. I will pay for what my family needs and I don't want the government involved.
Frankly, I find it shocking and sad that so many people are willing to let go of their freedoms so easily. We are being spoon fed socialism and one day we will realize it's too late to turn back.

being told that if I use more than X amount of energy I'll be taxed is them taking away my choice.

being told that if I drive an SUV or large vehicle and not a hybrid (which needs a new battery every five years) I'll be taxed is them taking away my choice.

If I choose to drive an SUV and heat my home, that is my right. If I choose to not use disposable diapers, plates, and cutlery, that is my right. If I choose to teach my children to recycle, to plant a garden, or to not waste energy, that is my right! But the government does not have a right to force me into these decisions by making it impossible to afford otherwise

This is what I find embarrassing.

I know (but here I am anyway) that none of you are going to change your minds. You have a RIGHT to as much energy as you want? You realize that energy is finite, right? There's a certain amount to go around and we need to be careful with it. I honestly don't understand why you think you should be able to use as much as you want without paying for it. I want a big house and a fast car. Who the hell are they to say that I can't have it! Why can't I just walk into a store a take whatever I want. Because that would make me a sociopath.

Some of you have said that you'll have no choice. I think it's pretty clear that you DO have the choice. If you want to overuse than you have to pay for it. If you're that concerned about not having heat in the winter go and buy yourself a wood burning stove, find some trees you can cut down and heat it yourself.

You act like the government is doing nothing for you right now. If it weren't for them we'd be paying many times the price for water. Why should the person/people with water on THEIR land not charge you as much as they want for it? Yeah for the free market! God bless capitalism!

Whoever made the comment about the government not regulating morality...I don't even know what to say to that except to ask if the words "justice system" mean anything. We EXPECT the govn to regulate morality because if they didn't we would have anarchy. We legislate what constitutes child abuse and murder. What crack me up is how many of you can make this statement and still thing the government has a right to criminalize abortions. Hypocrites.

Enviromentalism is not a religion, people. It's about numbers and facts and statistics. You ignore it at your own risk.

That's exactly what I don't understand. See, dh and I make a budget. Say we budget (using round numbers) $300 for energy a month. No problem right? We pay our $300 a month on the months we use $300 worth. But then we drop the thermostat a few degrees and leave a few windows open during July (not that we would, just using it as an example, and not during the 50* days we just had). Our energy bill is suddenly $500 that month. Who is responsible for paying that? Well, we are, because we didn't use our energy responsibly, by our choice. If we leave our water running in the bathroom all month, it's our choice to do it dammit, but we also have to pay for the consequences.

I think people (GENERAL PEOPLE, especially Fox News) are overreacting because it's the government reinforcing what we should already know. It will still absolutely be your choice to do those things, and really, the penalties won't be much different in the long run. It's your choice whether or not you drive the speed limit too, but if you drive over the speed limit and get caught, you're penalized, right?

Did ANYONE ever expect me to become this liberal? Anyone? Yeah me either.

I would NOT support anyone limiting how much we could use. But I think paying for using more is sensible.

I keep my thermostat at 65 degrees in the winter, I only use air conditioning in the summer if it is over 90 degrees outside, we have a veggie garden, and I own a house with a well. That is how we choose to live because believe it or not, I love my environment and do what I can to protect it. (Oh, and even though I have an SUV, it is out of necessity to get to and from my house in the winter and to keep my children safe.)

It was my choice to do that. BUT it still upsets me that the government is trying to tell other people how to run their lives. It's fine for the people with money who can heat their 20 room houses, but what about the those who can barely afford to heat their three room houses now? It's fine for those who can afford the cost of their groceries to go up because in order to keep lights on and the store warm enough, the store raises prices, but what about those who can't afford groceries now without living paycheck to paycheck?

President Obama promised not to raise taxes on the middle class (which by the way is being backed out on). Instead, he is taxing everything that the middle class has to use while at the same time not improving the economy so more and more middle class are not getting raises or jobs or the money to live day to day while at the same time paying more for basics.

So Elizabeth, judge my decisions all you want. Be embarrassed by my opinions all you want. That's why I love America. I can have my opinion and you can have yours. Free choice... at least for now.

We already pay for what we use. It is called an energy bill every month.

Originally Posted by RedMapleLeaf

We already pay for what we use. It is called an energy bill every month.

Isn't that weird?! And it's not even the government's fault! Unless... Unless the government is putting subliminal messages in our television programs, telling us to use more while they secretly siphon money out of the energy companies...

Tinfoil anyone?

I guess I don't see regulating energy usage and charging people for excess as taking away our freedoms. Silly me. And I don't see it as a slippery slope, either.

It's fine for the people with money who can heat their 20 room houses, but what about the those who can barely afford to heat their three room houses now? It's fine for those who can afford the cost of their groceries to go up because in order to keep lights on and the store warm enough, the store raises prices, but what about those who can't afford groceries now without living paycheck to paycheck?

And you're against Universal Health Care? Huh.

I guess the answer would be not to have more kids than you can afford.

Tiiiiiiiin Foooooiiiiiiiillllll....

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Whoever made the comment about the government not regulating morality...I don't even know what to say to that except to ask if the words "justice system" mean anything. We EXPECT the govn to regulate morality because if they didn't we would have anarchy. We legislate what constitutes child abuse and murder. What crack me up is how many of you can make this statement and still thing the government has a right to criminalize abortions. Hypocrites.

first, I made the comment about regulation morality and i am far from a hypocrite.

I am pro-choice because of this view fyi. I myself would never have an abortion because it conflicts MY morals, but i do not believe in forcing my morality on others, and I do NOT want anyone else's morality forced on me. i think it's tacky and quite a stretch to compare energy conservation with murder and child abuse too. those are black and white criminal issues. the energy cap is not.

my fear is the same as stacey, selena, etc. I am afraid of giving any of my personal freedoms to the government, even in the smallest part. I run my family, I make choices for myself and my family, and that's the way I want it to stay. I think if we allow them to tax energy now, it is the beginning of them regulating energy...and that eventually we will have X amount per month period. I only see it snowballing into total government control.

I also get that monetary motivation works...but instead of capping energy, why not give incentives to conserve? i think it's better to educate people about alternative energy sources and conversation and give incentives.

But isn't avoiding a penalty incentive enough to conserve? Where are they going to get money for incentives?

I keep our house at 66 in the winter and 80 in the summer. The only reason I do that is b/c we can't afford it any other way. I already do what I can for the environment, I shouldn't be made to pay more b/c I use more than what the gov't thinks I should. Cilco (our electric co) has already raised our rates so that they can make a profit. Instead of being penalized and fined for using more than what I *should*, give me an incentive to use less! It's been proven that people tend to respond better to positive reinforcement than negative.

Oh, well. If it's TACKY then never mind.

First, sooooooo not talking directly to you.

Second, it's not your personal RIGHT to have any kind or amount of energy you want. If you really wanted the government out of your life, you would go out and live in the woods with a fireplace.

Any ideas for incentives that don't cost money?